Judge: Homeland Security can’t require dependence on God
By John Cheves – jcheves@herald-leader.com
State Rep. Tom Riner, D-Louisville
A judge on Wednesday struck down a 2006 state law that required the Kentucky Office of Homeland Security to stress “dependence on Almighty God as being vital to the security of the commonwealth.”
Franklin Circuit Judge Thomas Wingate ruled that the law violated the First Amendment’s protection against the establishment of a state religion. Homeland Security officials have been required for three years to credit “Almighty God” in their official reports and post a plaque with similar language at the state’s Emergency Operations Center in Frankfort.
“Even assuming that most of this nation’s citizens have historically depended upon God by choice for their protection, this does not give the General Assembly the right to force citizens to do so now,” Wingate wrote.
“This is the very reason the Establishment Clause was created: to protect the minority from the oppression of the majority,” he wrote. “The commonwealth’s history does not exclude God from the statutes, but it had never permitted the General Assembly to demand that its citizens depend on Almighty God.”
State Rep. Tom Riner, D-Louisville, a Southern Baptist minister, placed the “Almighty God” language into a homeland security bill without much notice.
Riner said Wednesday that he is unhappy with the judge’s ruling. The way he wrote the law, he said, it did not mandate that Kentuckians depend on God for their safety, it simply acknowledged that government without God cannot protect its citizens.
“The decision would have shocked and disappointed Thomas Jefferson, who penned the words that the General Assembly paraphrased in this legislation,” Riner said.
The Herald-Leader reported on the law last November, prompting jokes about Kentucky on late-night television shows and a lawsuit by American Atheists of Parsippany, N.J., and 10 non-religious Kentuckians. Wingate was ruling in that lawsuit.
“We’re delighted,” said Edwin Kagin, a Boone County lawyer and national legal director for American Atheists, on Wednesday. “It’s what a judge should do. This law was unconstitutional on its face.”
“I think we can all feel a little safer now,” Kagin said. “The real threats to our society come from within, not without, and that includes building a theocracy here in Kentucky.”
Attorney General Jack Conway defended the law in court, arguing that striking down such laws risked creating a secular society that is wholly separated from religion. A Conway spokeswoman said the attorney general’s office is reviewing the ruling and will decide whether to appeal.
About the Author: John Stamper is the accountability editor for the Lexington Herald-Leader. A native of Monticello, Ky., he has been with the Herald-Leader in a variety of roles since graduating from Western Kentucky University in 2000. Reach him at jstamper@herald-leader.com
Rambo | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Does the overwhelming majority of the people get a voice. MSNBC conducted this poll on “In God We Trust” and you can see the results.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10103521/
John | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“He handed them over to the nations,
and their foes ruled over them.
Their enemies oppressed them
and subjected them to their power”
From The Holy Bible, Book of Psalms, Chapter 106; verses 41-42. NIV
“but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.”
From The Holy Bible, Book of Psalms, Chapter 37; verses 13. NIV
Sherman Cahal | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Finally. State makes no establishment of religion, per the First Amendment, but it has become apparent that some politicians and citizens have grown lax of their knowledge of one of the most important documents that govern this nation. Here is a hint: it is not a bible.
jim | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Give me a break: are some of you trying to imply that God would “choose” to protect out fair state, and let the remaining 49 perish?
Just when you thought you had heard it all.
Reginald Selkirk | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“Attorney General Jack Conway defended the law in court, arguing that striking down such laws risked creating a secular society that is wholly separated from religion.”
He says that like it’s a bad thing.
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
John,
What about Matthew 22:21?
Michael | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
God may be protecting Kentucky and the rest of the US (although He apparently was at the dentist or otherwise absent from work on 9/11). However, you can\’t say so in a law. The First Amendment specifically says so: \”Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….\”
You can pray all you want for God to protect the country in general and Kentucky in particular. You just can\’t do it in a law.
phyre | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
What part of “Separation of Church & State” doesn’t he understand?
Dave Bernell | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Atheist scum bags need to shut up! This is our country not theirs! One day the believers of this great land will put the fear of God back in them mark my words! Their time is at hand! Hallelujah!
They think they can just trample this country into the ground and commit all manor of immorality. Well they can’t God will judge them, and they will burn!
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Dave,
Who is more moral? The child that only does right because his father tells him, or the one that does it without prompting?
Nick | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Thank you Kentucky. This gives me one fewer reasons to be ashamed of the home of my late 18th and early 19th century ancestors. Still some work to do though.
Bosch's Poodle | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
John -
Regarding your wrathful God sharpening his shiv…F you and the God you rode in on, pal. If you’re anti-Constitution, you’re anti-American as far as I’m concerned. Get back in your hole.
Jeff | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I agree with Dave Bernell. I want church and state to mix. I mean look what it\’s done for Iran. When a woman exposes more than her eyeballs, she\’s beheaded just like the good book says she should be.
In fact, I think I\’ll give up my citizenship. Just thinking about Iran\’s glorious paradise makes me hate horrible, stupid, secular America.
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Michael,
He wasn’t at the dentist , He was batting the other side. Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic religions based on the same god.
Atheist Scumbag | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Nothing will happen to me or Kentucky as a result of this un-Constitutional language being removed. I’m certainly not worried about Dave’s god or John’s book of mythology. But I am concerned about the intellectual and psychological stability of these two…
Mohammed | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Inshallah Allahu Akbar. Islam will rule.
Atheist Scumbag | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Oh, and Rambo? Welcome to the Republic: there is no guaranteed tyranny of the majority. Sorry. Plus, I hope this so-called majority you speak of doesn’t have their faith confirmed on the basis of an arcane motto on our currency.
Atheist Scumbag | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Only the intellectually childish and incurious goad others by announcing their religion will “rule.” Allah may rule you, but not me. Keep it to yourself…
beebs | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I’m enjoying summer, and the thought that Kentucky is NOT being guarded by our invisible buddy who lives in the sky makes me happy.
It’s the twentyfirst century folks, time to do away with childhood superstitions.
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Atheist scumbag,
Given how they put their fingers in their ears and go LALALALALALALALALA, I think that’s the only way they have their faith confirmed. Us meanie atheists are too much for them.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yuGrGn6oYns/SogtZpzYlVI/AAAAAAAAAII/S8vq4bRjWf0/s1600-h/militant_atheists.jpg
Roboticus | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Sorry, Dave Bernell, but you hyper-Christians are late to the party. The majority of founding fathers were Deists, not Christian. The American Republic was founded on the basis of the Enlightenment, not Christian doctrine. And, despite all your whining to the contrary, atheists are just as much citizens of America as Christians, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
John Ritts | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Finally we have some common sense instead of BS “do as I say not as I do” as is the mantra of Williams!!!
Jacob Freeman | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Ah, the Godless Marxist’s continue to force their will on what’s left of traditional America
Jacob Freeman | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Roboticus,
I laugh when I see how you jelly-minded liberals have absorbed the revisionist manta shoveled out to you by Marxist professors. You wasted all that money at college only to be a little robot clone of your commie professors. Roboticus is a good name for you.
godless liberal | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
It is the religionist who are attempting to force their will on America, which is exactly why the court shot this down. Don’t like separation of church and state? Move to Iran or amend the constitution to eliminate the establishment clause of the First Amendment. People like Mr. Freeman like to make things up about this countries history that just aren’t true.
itzac | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Dave, your country belongs to all its citizens, regardless of what they believe. Such is the very purpose of the First Amendment.
If God will judge our acts immoral, then let him. He’s omnipotent; he doesn’t need your help. To demand to be able to stand in judgment of us yourself is arrogant, tyrannical, and shows a curious paradox in your faith.
Garagedragon | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Dave B, if you’re for real, thanks for the example. Why don’t you just come out honestly and tell us what you will do to people with your weapon to show them how much God agrees with your hate. People have been doing that throughout history, so it’s not like you’re a trailblazer. Or are you rather one of the cowards who hide behind big words and eagerly hope for someone slightly more deranged to carry out what you try to sow in their minds? You’d not be a first there either.
Evil Atheist Librul Scumbag | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Rambo: The MSNBC poll itself notes that it is \”not a scientific poll.\” No voluntary response poll is a scientific poll.
As for your question, \”Does the overwhelming majority of the people get a voice?\” — it dependsProvisions of the Constitution can\’t be changed by majority vote.
oh come on | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
What was it that I learned in Sunday school? Oh yes: \\\”Render unto God what is God\\\’s, and unto Caesar what is Caesar\\\’s\\\”. (Apologies for the paraphrase.) Just because I or anyone else adheres to a certain religion does not mean that state government should write it into our laws. Laws of man (and homeland security) belong to \\\”Caesar\\\” in this case. God has his own laws, and really doesn\\\’t encourage us to go around hating and smiting each other, at least not in the interpretation presented at my church.
Woody Tanaka | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
The stupid Christian scumbags in this country need to shut the hell up and learn the law.
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Jacob,
Commie like that long haired hippie that said to distribute the wealth and went ballistic on money lenders and happened to be born around 0 AD?
Islander | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Jacob,
Stop watching Glenn Beck. Atheist by no means means ‘marxist,’ and I find it funny that you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being fed a mantra when you clearly just repeat whatever your pastor/drunken father/equally moronic friends/Alex Jones/FOX News tells you. Also, way to make it obvious you never stepped foot into a college- or high school, for that matter.
Steve | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Darn right, Rambo. Nobody talks about Odin that way. His mighty hammer will smash them down to the base of the world tree, where they will dwell in Hel.
felixthecat | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
My daddy always said them athiests were no good, and no God have mercy on this great state of ours. Hang you’re heads in shame Kentuky! God will smite us in hatred for rejecting him. It is them commanists in the ACLJ that does bring us to this.
MattusMaximus | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I am so pleased to see that my home state has decided to join the 21st century (on this issue, at least). For those advocating that we should pay homage to God, ask yourself this question: which God? And would you be comfortable with the government requiring you to pay homage to someone else’s God? Therein lies the crux of church-state separation folks.
MattusMaximus | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Btw, Pat Tillman was an atheist…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#Religious_and_political_beliefs
… so apparently there *are* atheists in foxholes (I know others personally), and sometimes they die defending the very freedom of speech which some use to defame them. Funny, isn’t it?
Mark | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
If there were no humans there would be no gods.
Richard | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
You poor atheistic fools…….
Rob | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
The ones that use rationality aren’t the fools.
Ray Re | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I’m more and more convinced that God put us here as His own personal comedy channel.
Jacob Freeman | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I would wager that most of the opponents to this are probably Gay, or wait, I fell into the PC pit for a sec. I mean, queer, depraved people who hate anyone that will not condone their anal indulgent lifestyle. Outside of that you are all just a bunch of robots who will do as the internet or the media hynotizes you to do. And I dont even attend Church. Let’s hear some good rebuttal little boys.
Jeff | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
\”My daddy always said them athiests were no good, and no God have mercy on this great state of ours. Hang you’re heads in shame Kentuky! God will smite us in hatred for rejecting him. It is them commanists in the ACLJ that does bring us to this.\”
Is it a Biblical commandment to be stupid?
Jeff | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“They think they can just trample this country into the ground and commit all manor of immorality. Well they can’t God will judge them, and they will burn!”
No doubt that will give you a great deal of pleasure.
Stateboy | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Thank God.
Robert | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
I’m as much an American as you, mister “atheist scum bags”. Probably a lot better company.
Rob C | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Wait.
Patriotic Americans are all gay? Everyone who understands why the Bill of Rights exists is gay?
Where does that come from?
I think Jacob Freeman is scared, because he secretly thinks Obama is \”cute\”.
Also, there are no gods.
Scott M. | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Rambo, maybe you missed that part by the judge that said something about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
I’m just saying…
Murray | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Jacob, if you were bright enough to put together a rational argument, you would hear some proper rebuttals. As it stands, all you’ve managed to write are a couple of weird rants about marxists and “anal indulgent” lifestyles. There’s nothing substantial enough there to rebut. However, there IS plenty to point and laugh at.
DavidDT | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
this country NEEDS GOD…if government and citizens can not stop it from going down the drains
Rob C | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
DavidDT,
Baloney. The Christian god is a jealous, genocidal, misogynous, petty-minded, incompetent, insecure creep. Why would anyone in their right mind want help from such a jerk?
Good thing it’s only a fictional character.
I wouldn’t worship it even if it did exist (which it doesn’t). It’s unworthy.
Yet Another Atheist | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“Atheist scum bags need to shut up! This is our country not theirs! One day the believers of this great land will put the fear of God back in them mark my words! Their time is at hand! Hallelujah!”
Christian Love at it’s finest!
You make baby Jesus cry.
irabird | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Well decided, Judge! Badly and spinelessly argued, Mr. Conway. Representative Riner was enrolled at an institution of higher education in Louisville on April 3, 1974, when the tornado hit. After the school sustained major damage, he and friends walked the campus proclaiming God’s judgment on the institution. That’s the kind of rational thinking we need more of in our commonwealth! Right!
SADSADSAD | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Just another lowlife representitive of the people.Got 10 bucks says he’s not even from KY.
He’s following in the footsteps of his muslim lover hussein obamer.
Why in the crap does he and his liberal crony idiots try to keep throwing out the word oppressed?If they feel oppressed then send them out of this COUNTRY to parts unknown and then we’ll see just how oppressed ,depressed, suppressed and whatever pressed they can be.
Wow | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
It’s amazing that people get offended when others suggest the majority of bible-thumping hilljack Southerners are inbred morons. Obviously, they haven’t read these comments.
Yet Another Atheist | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“Why in the crap does he and his liberal crony idiots try to keep throwing out the word oppressed?”
Go down to your local li-berry, and ask the nice lady that works there to show you a dictionary. That’s a big book that tells you what words mean. If you ask her nicely, she will be happy to help you read it.
Then you might understand.
But probably not.
Phillycook | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Jeff re “My daddy always said them athiests were no good, and no God have mercy on this great state of ours.”
I think you missed the Poe in this one.
Jacob Freeman, Richard, Dave B:
I was writing a whole cited response to let you know how wrong you are on every level, but realized it would be useless. So, just for fun, I’ll knowingly resort to an ad hominem attack, which is much more satisfying – You’re all idiots – And ultimately, believing ridiculous things for ridiculous reasons will always rot your judgment and lead to swallowing tripe like religion, creationism and other fairy tales..
Mandamus | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Hey religious folk.
Nothing anyone can do can make you less religious than you want to be.
That being said, I resent you trying to make me more religious than I want to be.
DavidDT | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Rob C. – sorry if my sarcasm was not clear enough
Ray | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
“Riner said Wednesday that he is unhappy with the judge’s ruling. The way he wrote the law, he said, it did not mandate that Kentuckians depend on God for their safety, it simply acknowledged that government without God cannot protect its citizens.”
How can a law acknowledge something that has not been proven? There is no evidence supporting the notion that “government without God cannot protect its citizens.” That sounds more like fear-mongering propaganda.
As a secular nation, not a theocracy, the laws of this land derive from the Constitution, not from the “sacred” texts of just one religion. There are citizens who are members of dozens or hundreds of non-Christian religions, and there’s over 4,000 distinct Christian denominations, each group believing something a little bit different. No religious text of any of them belong written into the secular law that has to apply equally to all citizens, including the ones who don’t believe as someone else might.
Rob C | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
DaveDT,
You’re right. I didn’t see the sarcasm at all.
I like sarcasm, too.
Ya got me.
Nother nontheist scumbag | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
I’m doing my part. If I have a few minutes, I sit down and remove god from my money as well.
Oh, no! He removed god from our other god!!
Celestial2920 | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Steve… Odin had a spear called Gunnginir…. THOR had the hammer named Mjolnir… which he used to slay the frost giants, and to bring the rains and storms to Midgard. Besides, Thor was always a friend to mankind.
Too bad he was only a great legend… like the Xtian God and Allah
James Crabtree | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Actually, Rambo, what makes our nation a republic rather than a democracy is that the majority does NOT have a right to FORCE their opinions, religious or otherwise, on the rest of the population.
James Crabtree | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Dave, I sincerely hope you are just a rabble rouser, spouting trash because of a perverted, (as it were) sense of humor. I’d really hate to think that there are American citizens so ignorant of the constitution and the principles upon which this country was founded as to feel that only those who believe exactly the same as they do are “real” citizens. That way leads to the establishment of the Christian Taliban.
James Crabtree | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Good point, Rob. When will Christians ever learn that Christianity is a communist religion? Marx’s “To each according to their needs and from each according to their abilities” is straight from the Bible.
Communism is a Christian plot to rule the world!
James Crabtree | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Jacob, in order to get good rebuttal one must first have a sensible proposition.
teh Universal Schlong | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Kentucky? Nope, never heard of it.
Dan | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
I think Dave Bernell’s comments on this page make it very clear why church and state need to be seperate; loons like him burned the innocent, sent children on Crusades and have generally committed evil acts against anyone they percieve as un-christian.
The United States was the first nation to protect people from being told what they must believe, it was the first enlightened nation. Long may it remain so and long may it’s constitution be protected from the Baptist traitors that seek to overthrow it.
Dan | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Jacob Freeman, what a tribute the the constitution you seek to ignore that even your vile, hate filled un-proven ramblings have a right to be heard.
Once again we see the Christian view point dominated by those who hate. Are there any real Christians left in Ameerica or just those who hide vile politics behind their Pastors?
brother | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
The majority definitely gets a say in much that we collectively decide in our democratic process. The First Amendment, as with the rest of the Bill of Rights, is not about majority privilege, it is about protecting the rights of the minority. When government posts Jewish and Christian texts or phrases on courthouses walls, it says to minorites that unless you have these views, you may not be as welcome here.
cajunman | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Dan said “The United States was the first nation to protect people from being told what they must believe…”
I suggest you read up a bit on history before making such an outlandish claim.
Edmund | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
@DaveBernell:
The only part that pleases me about you sir, is that someday you will cease to exist. Then the world shall be rid of yet another bigoted scoundrel.
cajunman | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Oh, yes, and what Jacob said: I laugh when I see how you jelly-minded liberals have absorbed the revisionist manta shoveled out to you by Marxist professors. You wasted all that money at college only to be a little robot clone of your commie professors. Roboticus is a good name for you.
Let me fix that for you:
I laugh when I see how you jelly-minded christians have absorbed the irrational manta shoveled out to you by your clergy. You wasted all that money supporting your church to be a little robot clone of your christian indoctrination.
There, much better, n’est-ce pas ?
Black Jack Shellac | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
My my, it really is remarkable how the lies of the neo-christian right have poisoned the debate in your country. I remember thinking how funny people like Jerry Fallwell and that other loud-mouthed hypocrite (caught with his pants down) Jimmy Swaggart were back in the early ’80s before they infected so much of the populace with their populist brand of neo-christianity. Not so funny now though. Let’s just hope that this cultural disease isn’t spread to the rest of the civilized world (besides the islamic world where it is so obviously doing so much damage). Fundamentalists of all stripes are poisonous cretins.
Dave Buck | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
“When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for help of a civil power , ‘tis a sign, I apprehend of its being a bad one.” (Benjamin Franklin)
evodevo_mike | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Thank goodness that vile law has been struck down.
One question for the godbots :: Did it ever occur to you that you people are worshiping an entity that doesn’t believe in something greater than it? That your god is an ATHEIST?
Tarpon | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
To “Athiests just shut up”, if more concerned people become involved, perhaps we can show you the correct way to view biology, eveolution and the world….minus the bronze age zombie god that you are attempting to prop up.
Jeff | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
@Phillycook: “Jeff re “My daddy always said them athiests were no good, and no God have mercy on this great state of ours.”
I think you missed the Poe in this one.”
Yeah, I was thinking that as I clicked on “Submit”, but I sent it anyway, as it’s an accurate representation.
Yes, I agree – they are all idiots, and there are *millions* of them. It’s the reason I no longer have any hope for this country.
Well, I suppose we’ll have no use for brains in hell.
Shelley Dee | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
No, Dining Room Table, the people do “not” get a voice! The Constitution rightly protects against the tyranny of the majority.
After all, the “majority” did not want women to vote at one point in time.
Deal with it. You can pray to whatever god you want, as many times as you want, and credit him with everything that goes on in your life. No one is stopping you. But you CANT’T FORCE that same practice on others.
Thank “god.”
Buck Feshear | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Childish superstitions? What do Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny have to do with this?
Thomas Hobbes | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
“Attorney General Jack Conway defended the law in court, arguing that striking down such laws risked creating a secular society that is wholly separated from religion.”
Well, that is what a free society should be.
Stephen | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Dave Bernell: “Atheist scum bags need to shut up! This is our country not theirs!”
Absolutely, completely wrong! You, sir, are NOT an American!
“One day the believers of this great land will put the fear of God back in them mark my words! Their time is at hand! Hallelujah!”
How Christian of you to threaten violence against non-believers! THIS shows your true colors, you traitorous coward!
“They think they can just trample this country into the ground and commit all manor of immorality. Well they can’t God will judge them, and they will burn!”
There you go again! Threats and more threats … If there is a God, YOU will be punished. But fortunately, we are not required to believe your fairy tales in order to be a citizen of the USA.
Stephen | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Jacob Freeman: “You wasted all that money at college only to be a little robot clone of your commie professors.”
You’re just jealous because we actually GOT educations for our money, unlike you! The fact that you think this little riposte is witty or insightful tells us all we need to know about YOUR education! You clearly don’t even know what “Marxist” or “communist” mean, just that they’re supposed to be bad and scary. You have the intellect of a 10-year-old.
Stephen | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
“Outside of that you are all just a bunch of robots who will do as the internet or the media hynotizes [sic] you to do.”
Project much?
Stephen | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
“I suggest you read up a bit on history before making such an outlandish claim.”
I suggest you cite your sources before try to rebut someone’s argument. There’s nothing outlandish about that claim. If you think there is, you must show your work!
Ray | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Rambo, you obviously don’t get it – what a surprise. Read the article again, especially about protecting the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
James | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
perhaps one day people will stop believing in myths and fairy tales, but until then the bible and other books of nonsense will be held in high regard.
That is why we must have protection from the irrational, the unthinking, and the faithful as they are able to justify any action they take as being the will of their invisible imagined creator.
W. | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Dave Bernell said:
Atheist scum bags need to shut up! This is our country not theirs! One day the believers of this great land will put the fear of God back in them mark my words! Their time is at hand! Hallelujah!
They think they can just trample this country into the ground and commit all manor of immorality. Well they can’t God will judge them, and they will burn!
Hey Dave. Thank you for your spot on display of “christian love”. That is all godbothers have isn’t it: “Well! My god will smite you and then you will know the love of my god!” Bloody moron.
Steve | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Okay, so I’m a bit weak on my Norse mythology. Hand has been slapped. It was only sarcasm anyway.
I love the fact that everyone uses some of the Norse gods every week. Freya, Thor, Odin, Tir….
Keep hammering at the ignorance!
Curtis Morrison | Aug 27, 2009 | Reply
Those opposed to Conway appealing this decision can demonstrate their position by joining the facebook group: God is not Kentucky’s Director of Homeland Security: http://tinyurl.com/lwend4
Yet Another Atheist | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
I’m actually rather encouraged to read so many smackdowns aimed at these religious morons.
There may be hope for the future of the US after all.
Coemgenus | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
Kentucky will suffer now that it has abandoned Jupiter, the Greatest and Best of all the Gods.
Valheru | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
Iron chariots, bitches! Kentucky don’t have a snowflake’s chance in hell once them iron chariots come a-rollin’ in.
macleod | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
Majority only rules when it does not violate the US Constitution. A government agency being required to mention God violates the First Amendment.You don’t like it have a fun time trying to change the first amendment.
Would you feel the same if it said “dependence on Almighty Allah as being vital to the security of the commonwealth”?
Darrell | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
LOL, I feel the “love.” So let me get this straight. Before I became an atheist I was a Christian and I’m allowed to stay in this country, but now I’m not? At what point did I lose my citizenship?
Darrell Barker | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
LOL, I feel the “love.”
So let me get this straight. Before I became an atheist I was a Christian and was permitted to stay in this country, but now I’m not? At what point did I lose my citizenship?
Nicole | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
Rep. Riner needs to read up on his Jefferson a bit more closely…
“Question with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
Sam | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
The very sad thing is that Jack is the Democrat’s man for the 2010 Senate seat. Sad because he is so much more liberal than who the Republicans will put up. Which might explain Jack’s actions. Here in KY you better not be against God.
Sean D. | Aug 28, 2009 | Reply
So now we’re going to base laws on web polls?
/tard
Nancy Tyler | Aug 29, 2009 | Reply
I love the way these pieces of cr@p who try to impose their theocratic views on everyone else get offended when people of other religions — or no religion — stand up for themselves and say they don’t want to be bullied. Our country was founded on the principle of freedom of religion! I guess the folks who are terrified of people who don’t believe what they do are so ignorant they can’t understand that. lol, the movie ‘Idiocracy’ is coming true!
Nathan | Aug 30, 2009 | Reply
Your entire position is wishful, magical thinking. Go study the lives and times of the founding fathers. Each and every one of them were against exactly the kind of influence blind faith in religious dogma that’s stunting the intellectual, spiritual and physical growth and well being of our country. Spouting off like that just shows how blissfully ignorant of the facts you are. Why bother with reality, is it? Why would you possibly need facts when you know the “Truth,” right?
If the founding fathers were so pious, what of Columbia, also know as Lady Liberty and Lady Justice, whose statue adorns the dome of the Capitol, carries the the scales of justice before the Supreme Court and was enshrined in a gift to us from France to Grace New York Harbor. Columbia is the official goddess, (Yes! Goddess!) after which the nation’s capitol city Washington, District of Columbia, was named.
Upon which planet do you spend most of your time?
Dan | Sep 1, 2009 | Reply
Aren’t you a little old to have imaginary friends?
Nick | Sep 1, 2009 | Reply
No one is “against” your god. Some of us just choose not to believe in it, and you better get used to it because this is AMERICA. What do you think “Land of the free” means?
Joshua | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
This Riner guy is a fool. Thomas Jefferson called Christianity a form of sun worship and belittled it in his autobiography as well as in public on several occasions. Only a few of the founding fathers were christians, kind of like today. You are surrounded by Atheists and there is nothing you (or your god by extension) can do, lol.
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
You and I are both atheists, I just take it one god further and deny yours. Do you worship Zeus? Do you worship Odin?
“Do you believe in god?”
“No.”
BANG! “Dead!”
“Do you believe in god?”
“yes.”
“Do you believe in *my* god?”
“No.”
BANG! “Dead! My god has a bigger dick than your god!”
-George Carlin
Einstein, possibly the smartest man to ever walk the planet, was jewish by birth, but atheist by choice.
Go fear your invisible sky monster; I’ll be busy worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
BTW, I’m god. What’s that, “prove it,” you say? Well, PROVE I’M NOT! You CAN’T prove something doesn’t exist because there’s nothing to prove. You can only prove things that exist. And after 2000+ years of wars and murders and carnage… still no proof of god, yours or anyone elses.
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Rob: “What about Matthew 22:21?”
What about it? You’re quoting a line from a fictional book.
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p143/PhilNDeBlanc/bible_fiction.jpg
Your bible advocates MURDER, INCEST, SLAVERY, etc. No thanks. Go ahead and live your life in fear of an imaginary diety. Not for me though.
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj48/phillydrifter/atheism/if-you-could-reason-wth-religious-p.jpg
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Think, man! THINK!
See ‘Religulous’ by Bill Maher.
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Darrell Aug 28, 2009: “Before I became an atheist I was a Christian…”
Before you became a Christian (your baptism) you were an atheist. Then you became a Christian (against your will; you were a few months old at the time and couldn’t even speak and had no idea what was going on in the world around you) and then you became an atheist again. Good job. (Same story for me. I was baptized against my will when I was a fwe months old too.)
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
“I do not feel obliged to believe that same God who endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect had intended for us to forgo their use.” [Galileo Galilei]
I was born exactly 413 years after this genius.
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Jacob Freeman, Aug 26, 2009
“Ah, the Godless Marxist’s continue to force their will on what’s left of traditional America”
‘Traditional’ america? That’s the one where slaves were property and women had no right to vote, right?
Phil E. Drifter | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
Mark, Aug 26, 2009
\”If there were no humans there would be no gods.\”
Guess what. There are humans… still no gods.
\”On the first day, man created god…\”
Shawn | Sep 4, 2009 | Reply
It is astonishing how many Christians paint atheists with such a broad brush. Atheists are just as varied as Christians. I’m not gay… hell I’m not even a liberal. I’m a registered Libertarian and former member of the Young Republicans until I got too tired of the religious right dictating policy. When conservatism was born it stood for conservative use of *government* and not for archaic ideas and mythical superbeings. When republicans remember that, I’ll start voting for them again.
Robert | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
The worst thing about this. It is all about something that completely breaks the underlying principle of Christianity, temptations on earth and rewards in heaven. This kind of nonsense turns God into a sock puppet of one religion, of one group of people, where they pray and God jumps, true blasphemy by their own religion. Free will or the individual, is the basis of Christianity, altering circumstance alters choice and eliminates free will.
Loves to Spooge | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
And you wonder why no one takes America seriously? That country is fast becoming a joke.
God | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
Actually I’m quite fond of atheists, they have the ability to think for themselves.
Please stop putting words in my mouth.
Bjorn | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
Dave Bernell | Aug 26, 2009 | Reply
Atheist scum bags need to shut up! This is our country not theirs! One day the believers of this great land will put the fear of God back in them mark my words! Their time is at hand! Hallelujah!
They think they can just trample this country into the ground and commit all manor of immorality. Well they can’t God will judge them, and they will burn!
Two things. First I think you meant manner not manor. A manor is a large house. Secondly you threatening that your imaginary friend is going to burn atheists is downright silly.
themasterofcarnage | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
The 2 posts above are scary as hell. Short walks and long cliffs = win win for all. u get to see granpa & the dog u had when u were five in heaven. And the rest of us can keep on boldly going and what not.
Clear Headed | Sep 5, 2009 | Reply
Fundie Xtians remind me a lot of smokers. They insist they have the right to encroach upon my space but scream bloody hell when I ask them not to.
Smokers suffer no harm when they are required by law not to smoke in public places. But non-smokers suffer when smokers smoke in public spaces.
Fundie Xtians suffer no lack of faith when they are required by law not to push their beliefs in the public sphere. But non-Christians suffer when they are expected or forced to comply with Christian ‘ethics.’
Yes, smokers and fundie Xtians suffer discomfort when they are asked or required not to practice their strange habit so it invades others’ space. But discomfort should never be confused with oppression.
lovelovemedo | Sep 6, 2009 | Reply
Allah shall burn, athiests with perish, christians will die, buddhists will suffer, hindis will fall, taoists will lose, wiccans will die(f synonyms), satanists will die, scientolgosts will die, pastafarianists will die, rastifarians will die, and anyone I forgot will die, all shall rest (eventually) so shut the f- up or we can end this a little easier. Your gonna die get over it. I’m gonna die and I got over it. Don’t care what religion you are, you are going to die and there is nothing you can do. Stop hating people cause they’re gonna die “worse” or “better” than you.
Atheist and Apparent Scumbag | Sep 6, 2009 | Reply
Dave Bernell, your response only deserves one simple reaction and that is: lol.
To everyone else: You people want a theocracy move to the middle east. There is a reason that region is so messed up and it sure as hell (no pun intended) isn’t because of secularism or atheism. All religions are the same and will have the same outcome if ruling a nation. Oppression and lack of freedoms.
If the authors of the Constitution wanted the Bible to be our rule book I’m pretty sure they would have mentioned it in the Constitution. Instead they decided to write the first amendment.
Religion is destroying the planet, it will be the reason for humanity’s inevitable self caused extinction. It’s very depressing and sad that everyone else will have to die with you just because you can’t agree what imaginary friend is better.
I say that atheists/non believers build our own nation with science and exploration as it’s backbone and start inhabiting space. Should only take 5-10 years if religion, politics, and bureaucracy isn’t holding us back. Then we don’t have to die when the people that believe in fairies start nuking each other cuz the voices in their head told them to.
Young Atheist | Sep 6, 2009 | Reply
America: taking a step in the right direction.
Human beings starrted out primarily as polytheists–people who worshipped multiple gods. With the advancement of intelligence, humans began to weed these many gods down to one. Monotheism is a step above polytheism, the worshipping of only one supreme being. And now the only logical course of action is that atheism will began to rise and take over monotheism. Atheism is targeting the fallacies of religion and removing it from our society. It’s on the rise, more and more people are shirking their religion for the more logical and intellectual non-religion.
And I don’t believe it’s up to Atheists to prove that “God” doesn’t exist. I think it’s up to the believers to prove their beliefs. That’s how it works for everything else.
Aussie Scott | Sep 7, 2009 | Reply
Just though I would let you Americans in on a little secret…the rest of the developed word is laughing at you.
We see you as just as fundamentalist as those extremist Muslims we all fear so much. To us, you see, the American fundamentalists are just as big a threat.
It seems incredible to us that what is supposedly the most advanced country in the world spends most of its time in church and defending god.
Grow up, move on from god and other fairy tales, and be all you can America!
Kenny | Sep 26, 2009 | Reply
@Dave – when you can prove your god is any more real than Zeus, you may get some atheists to join you. Until then, you are just another deluded believer in mythology. You and your believers don’t own this country, so you should probably get over yourself and your concerns about others who don’t happen to share your beliefs.
BTW – no matter where you go in this country, there are atheists among you. Get used to it, because it is not going to get any better for the mythology group.
Wayne Adkins | Sep 26, 2009 | Reply
There is no god. Get over it.
Dan Shields | Nov 24, 2009 | Reply
This is a joke, right? The gods are made and protected by people, not the other way around. Every child knows that praying for a thing does not make it so.
Only by continuing the secular society we should have will we ever be protected from terrorists, fundies, and the crazy superstitious.
Sheesh!
Andre | Dec 5, 2009 | Reply
I’m with the atheist team.
I’m reading a great book, “Breaking the Spell”, in which religion is analysed as a natural phenomenon. There is a very good insight in that book. These people on the other team, the jolly god-folk, are to be seen as manifestations of a natural phenomenon. And to be respected as such, and, most importantly, to be studied as such. honestly, has anyone ever heard of a jolly god-person being convinced that he is, in fact, an idiot? Guess what: Not gonna happen. Wasted effort. Our effort should be directed to the study of this phenomenon of religion and it’s manifestations, such as the god-folk. Stop arguing with these poor people and trying to show fossil pictures to creep them out, instead talk to them, try and learn how they think, and why they think like they do. Let’s try some good science here guys, what do you say?
As for the jolly god-folk who actually read this, smile: you are being watched.
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